Inspirational legal women: a conversation with Akila Agrawal

Isla Tobin (IT): Hello, I'm here today with Akila Agrawal, a senior partner at Cyril Amarchand, based in Delhi, India. 

Akila has over 25 years of experience working in mergers and acquisitions, joint ventures, corporate restructuring and corporate advisory. Akila is an officer with the IBA's Women Lawyers’ Committee, responsible for Asia Pacific Regional Liaison, and a passionate advocate for women working in the legal profession. But not only that, Akila is also a fiction author and founder of a successful book club and the first in-firm crèche in India. But we'll get to that later in today's discussion. 

It's wonderful to speak with you today, Akila, and we are delighted you're taking part in the IBA’s Inspirational Legal Women podcast series to celebrate some of our incredible members and their achievements and career in the legal profession. 

We're here today to talk about your work as a successful corporate lawyer, some of the challenges and experiences you've had in your career, and any advice you may have for women entering or navigating their own career in the law, as well as your life outside of work and commitment to your community. Welcome, Akila. 

Akila Agrawal (AA): Thank you. Thank you, Isla, for having me here. Thank you IBA. It's a privilege to join this discussion. 

IT: Thank you. Well, it's a pleasure to have you on our podcast. So, Akila, I'd like to start with what motivated you to pursue a career in the law and how did you decide what type of law was of most interest to you? 

AA: My father was a lawyer, so very early on I was quite inspired by the kind of work he did. I was surrounded by books, more importantly, and the general impression I had of law was that it requires a lot of reading, a lot of speaking, both of which were very fascinating for me – I've always liked public speaking. So, when I had to make a choice later on in my life, it was a very natural one that I chose law. So, no regrets to date. 

IT: Oh, well, I'm pleased to hear that. And I think a lot of listeners could resonate with that as well, like the law being so based on words and the use of words. It makes sense that people who are quite into books at a young age end up in the legal profession. 

AA: When I started in the profession in India way back in 1999, law firms did not have very regimented practice areas. So, I started off as a generalist. In fact, when I joined Cyril Amarchand, I joined the intellectual property kind of work. But slowly I moved to mergers and acquisitions, and once I did one transaction, I completely enjoyed the kind of pace it requires and the kind of variety it had, because when you are a mergers and acquisition lawyer, you're looking at pretty much every kind of law, whether it’s employment or intellectual property or corporate real estate and the like. So, I very much enjoyed that. 

Slowly, I gravitated towards public M&A. I did a couple of public M&A transactions and soon was the go-to person within the firm for public M&A transactions. So, it all happened not in a very engineered fashion; it was by default. Now, of course, we're a large firm and people start with very clear mindsets as to what kind of practice areas they would want to do. But in my time, it was more by default.

IT: And it sounds like your background, starting in a more generalist capacity, has assisted you with your career in M&A. Would you say that that's correct? Like what you learned, I suppose, from working across all those various areas of law, has that assisted you with your role today? 

AA: It does. I think having started up as a generalist has really helped me in my profession because one of the biggest issues we face while we do large transaction is people working in silos and different teams not talking to each other and somebody not having the big picture. So, one of key roles I play in my firm as a senior partner is to have the big picture for my client and I may not be an expert in every kind of law but I always know whom to ask or what questions to ask, which I believe is a job for somebody in every transaction. So, it is great fun to kind of put all the pieces together and make sure your client is getting what it wants, because the siloed kind of service generally does not work in today's day and age. 

IT: Great, thank you for those insights. As you say, you're a senior partner and I'm wondering how do you balance the demands of a high-pressure career with personal and family responsibilities and are there any strategies or habits that have been particularly helpful to you? 

AA: Yeah, so I started my family pretty early on in my life, got married early, had children early, which in hindsight was a very good thing to do. So, when my son was born, I was an associate, so I did not have that many responsibilities within the firm. When my daughter was born, I was a partner, but I was young partner and therefore could juggle family and work. 

I think it all boils down to the kind of support you have in your life. I have a very supportive family. My husband, my parents, my in-laws and the like. And in India, we are blessed with a lot of good staff who help us with our caregiving responsibilities, so that really helps. So, I wouldn't be where I am without all of these people pitching in and making sacrifices for me. 

When my children were younger, my mother-in-law used to actually travel to Delhi when I had to travel some place and spend time with my children. So, I think the strategy as such is to not hesitate to take help if it is available, not try and do everything yourself, don't try and go for something perfect. Whether you're not a perfect parent or a perfect associate or a perfect partner, but just try to make sure that you're giving your best. Another thing that's worked very well for me is that everybody around me respected my career. And that is very important because sometimes I see that if you yourself are not convinced about the importance of your career, you tend to not take it too seriously. So, I took my career very seriously and therefore had the buy-in from my family who also gave it the respect it deserved. So that helped. 

IT: Thank you, Akila. I think that's sage advice, particularly for the lawyers listening. We do have a tendency, I think, as a profession to want to achieve perfection in all aspects of life. And as you say, when juggling many things, I think succeeding in all of them is in and of itself, I guess, a success, as opposed to aiming for perfection every time. 

So, you founded a crèche at the first firm you worked at and we'd like to hear more about that extraordinary achievement for the time. So, could you tell our listeners a bit more about how you did that and what motivated you to pursue that option for the firm? 

AA: Yeah, so when I had my second child, I was already a partner and at that time, there were more young mothers in the firm, in the other teams, and also amongst the support staff. My managing partner at that time was very supportive. At that time, I mooted this idea, and we set up a creche. We outsourced it and it was a fabulous success. It is still running and doing well. And it really helped the firm more than the mothers because the firm got to retain very wonderful women who would have otherwise either chosen something which is not so intensive because you know, there was more childcare. Unlike in Western countries, in India organised childcare is not really available to the extent it is in other countries. So, we have personal nannies and personal help. So, this was something which was organised and it was very convenient for the mothers to step in every few hours to check on their children.

IT: Oh great, it sounds like it was and continues to be a really valuable resource so what an excellent initiative. Now, you published your first work of fiction, Marriages Not Made in Heaven, a couple of years ago. The book touches on the lives of three women living in Delhi and choices about marriage, career and family. Could you tell us more about the book and what inspired you to produce your first novel?

AA: Yeah, so my poster time and plan is to write. I'm a very voracious reader and I plan to write seriously at some point in time. I changed firms around eight years ago and I had a three-and-a-half-month period of garden leave where I could not work. And I took that time to pen down this book, which is basically a social commentary of what I have seen in Delhi. 

I have met some very wonderful women who are not working as well – in my neighbourhood, in my friends, parents of my kids, friends and stuff like that – and I noticed that there are a lot of very strong educated women who kind of get troubled with the social pressures and having to, you know, get married or sacrifice their careers and kind of prioritise their family by not having a career and stuff like that. So, I therefore imagined the life of these three sisters who have very different kind of mindsets as to what they want in life. But at the end of the book, you will notice that they're all similar in the sense that there is a very independent streak in each of them to get what they want and at the same time make peace with society. So, it's a little bit like a takeoff on what we see in everyday life in Delhi. 

IT: Excellent, thank you. And for those listening who might be curious to get their hands on a copy, where can people find the book? 

AA: So, the book was self-published by me; it is available on Amazon. I wrote it under the pseudonym called Vathi Agrawal. So, it's available on the Amazon, Kindle, or if you want a hard copy as well. 

IT: Great, thank you. And as a book lover, I hear you've also started your own book club at your firm. Could you tell us a bit about that? 

AA: Yeah, so I'm very excited about this new project I started a year ago. So, this happened in a team meeting. The demographics in my firm is that the average age is around 25 to 30, a lot of young people, and we were, as always, discussing books and movies. We were having a team lunch and completely ran over the time we had scheduled for it, because we were all so passionate about what we were reading and stuff. So, then we decided, why don't we schedule some time for this and start a book club? So, that idea germinated and took root and we just completed our first anniversary last week where we celebrated it in style. 

There are around 35 members in the group. We meet the first Friday of every month. So, one person gets to choose the book of the month. He or she gives three choices and the rest of us vote on it. Apart from self-help, any book is permitted; fiction, non-fiction, autobiographies. And the only thing is the page limit should be less than 300 because we have different categories of readers. Some are very like, you know, evolved readers and some are beginners, so we wanted to make sure that everyone is comfortable. So, it's been a great success because over the months, we've all become a pretty good friends in terms of, you know, we know much more and it's a great bonding exercise for us as well, because we are not part of the same team. So, there are people from, say, projects, capital markets who are kind of interacting with each other. It's a great way to communicate and share experiences. 

IT: Fantastic. Oh, that sounds excellent. Well, happy first birthday to the book club and sounds like a fabulous group and perhaps a novel idea in and of itself, bringing people together and the stories that they can share in the environment. 

So, moving back to things work-related, I'm curious to know what's the biggest challenge or challenges you've faced in your career and and how did you navigate this? 

AA: So, workwise, obviously, we face a lot of challenges in execution and stuff like that. But if you look at the big challenges that I faced in my career, it's about the choices people like me have to make. When you're juggling, as we discussed, a family and work, do I ask for this big transaction because that involves a lot of travel? Do I want to sacrifice my time with my children and take up that assignment which involves travel, or do I not push myself? Those kind of challenges are what have always been there all my life. Luckily now my children are all grown up and those challenges don't exist but it is about how much to push yourself and whether to take the easy way out has always been a challenge and always myself, which in hindsight again has worked well for me. 

Another big challenge is when I was in one law firm for nearly 16 years, which was a great firm. I had a great time. I grew as a lawyer there. I moved from associate to equity partner in that period of time. But then somewhere I realised that I wanted to do more. I wanted to practice leadership. I want to take up a bigger role, which was unfortunately not available there. So, there it was a challenge as to whether I should again choose stability and not rock the boat or should I choose growth and again push myself. And that again was a very challenging time because when you're in one law firm, pretty much you are very settled and then you have to come out of your comfort zone, to test your clients, test your team and stuff like that. So that was a challenge.

I advise everybody to kind of take up those challenges and not be complacent about their careers because it’s very important to take that at the right time and timing is very important in these decisions. 

IT: Thank you, that's excellent advice. Now, what strategies, Akila, have you used to establish credibility and assertiveness in a male-dominated profession, particularly at its senior levels? Is there anything you could share on that point with us? 

AA: As lawyers, we are in a profession, so we're not doing a job. So, I take my profession very seriously. So, whether it's my integrity or my quality and what I'm known for is very, very important for me. I'm not doing business here. Just targets and stuff like that. My strategic way of handling all clients – male clients, female clients – is that your work will speak for yourself and you need to hold your ground. It's like a playground; there will always be bullies. They could be your peers, they could be your clients, they could be somebody else in the room. So, you need to hold your ground and when you do, people will start taking you seriously. So, I have always been assertive. 

Of course, it's easier when you're older. When you're younger, it is more difficult because there are more older people in the room and it is easy for them to kind of blindside you or second guess you and stuff like that. But I would, I think, prepare. Be ready for all kinds of eventualities in every meeting. So, you know, even till today, like though I may have done tons of transactions for every meeting, I go prepared as if it's the first time. I think preparation gives you that confidence to see you through every kind of client. 

And it's your brand. So, you build your brand with every piece of interaction you do. Whether it is a counterparty or your own client. And your brand building is very important because in our profession, it's all word of mouth. Who you are travels by word of mouth. I get a lot of work from my existing clients through reference to other clients. So, you need to be careful about the brand you're building. 

IT: Thank you. Now with your work, you would work across a lot of different regions, legal systems and cultures. So, can you talk to us about how you adapt to different systems and cultural expectations through your work? 

AA: Yeah, so I do a lot of cross-border transactions. And yes, I've come across my fair set of clients across jurisdictions and cultures. And yes, you need to adapt yourself. And it is not a one-shoe-fits-all kind of approach, because at the end of the day, we are in a service industry, and we need to know who we are serving. I’ve done a lot of transactions with German clients with their attention to detail. I've learned a lot from them as to, you know, how to go about so systematically. And I think the only time when I had a closing checklist with not just date, but time on it was for a German company. 1715 we sign this, 1720 we get this issued or whatever that is, so you know that level of detail is with German clients. 

So, you learn a lot from each of these cultures. For example, with Japanese clients, you need to be extremely verbose; crisp emails do not work. But with American clients, you need to come to the point and just tell them yes or no, and can do, cannot do – they don't want a thesis on why. So, depending on the client, and also depending on the seniority of the client. So not just the culture, but suppose I'm speaking to a senior person. I write and speak very differently as opposed to somebody who's a law firm person or a junior person, then I take more time to elaborate. So, I calibrate myself depending on the person.

But having said that, I think given the kind of work that we do, a lot of our work is very sophisticated. And there has been a lot of a merger of all of these cultures. So, it's not so drastically different anymore in terms of cultural expectations. So, it's not like if I work with an Indian client, I'm expected to do something very different in terms of client servicing. So, I think people are now much more sophisticated when they do transactions in India. It's not that stark, the differences. 

IT: Absolutely. Thank you for those insights. And finally, what is the best piece of advice you would give to someone aspiring to succeed in law, particularly as a woman? 

AA: One piece of advice I give is to say yes to all opportunities that come your way. So, sometimes I see people hesitate to take on something which they have never done before or they think they can't do it. I think there is enough help available today; there is so much knowledge available on the internet, there are people there to help you, whatever you want to do in life. Suppose I want to take up knitting today, I'm sure I can start knitting by tomorrow because there are so many people out there who can tell me how to knit. So, I think that people should just put up their hand and say yes to what comes their way. And that will shape them, shape their life and their career because opportunities are scarce. And when you get an opportunity, just go for it and grab it, this would be my advice. 

For women in particular, my advice, which I wish someone had told me this when I was younger, is that don't feel guilty about prioritising your work because it's not like you're neglecting your family. You are just giving equal importance to your work and your family, and that's not a bad thing. That's what all men do. Men give equal importance with their family and their work, and we are very much entitled to give equal importance to both of them. And again, it cannot be a perfect dinner or a perfect anything for your child. You cannot be the perfect hostess at home. It's important that you don't put so much pressure on yourself and don't feel guilty about it, and don't think you're not meant to be someplace because, believe me, we're all meant to be where we are. 

IT: Well, thank you so much, Akila. We really appreciate that final bit of advice there for the women lawyers listening and again, really appreciate your time today. So, thank you very much for joining us on the podcast. 

AA: Thank you, Isla. Thank you for having me here. I enjoyed talking to you.